Side event A new chapter in law enforcement influencing drug policy

Side event organized by LEAP

Suzanne Sharkey – LEAP UK

My name is Suzanne Sharkey. I am Co executive director of UK Leap, also Europe. Welcome everybody, and if you’d like, throughout the panel discussion, if you have any questions that you’d like put to the panel, please use the question answer box, which should be on the bottom of your screen. We’re here today to amplify and strengthen an international movement that is growing by law enforcement to work towards repairing the harms caused by punitive drug policies and to promote just responses. The International Law Enforcement Action Partnership family is influencing reform of drug policy across the globe. Drug policy future should and will have a health focus, not a criminal one. But we need to speed up this journey to this inevitable future. What we need to see is effective drug policies with positive outcomes. And like I said, a greater emphasis on justice, dignity and human rights. The big question is how can we achieve that? And if we look at the recommendations from ungass in 2016, the outcome document specifies working towards decriminalization. Of all people who use drugs and it calls on you and states to innovate with regulation. This is an important discussion, but we’re here to insist that this is urgent. The growing power of organized crime is actually now a drug policy crisis. Law enforcement are the people tasked with the problem in a prohibition regime. Our own systems and observations make it clear that there is no societal benefit to police, drugs, investigations, punitive action, no matter what the scale is, seizures may look good in the media, but is an illusion of success that deceived the public. Police action never reduced the size of the market. The supply or the demand. It never reduces the market supply and demand. It does however change the shape of it and the changing shape has led to the growth and corrupting power of international organized crime. But innovation is happening. We can see it her own sister treatment in Europe and save supply in Canada, which is sliding away from the criminal markets in a way that policing couldn’t. More regulated cannabis markets are inevitable, which we do welcomes. But it’s law enforcement. We need more regulatory innovations and urgently. So this call here today is to the UN nations to treat this as a crisis that it is, and we call on police to be honest. It’s not your job to defend a policy that is eroding functionality and the credibility of your institutions. And we have key information to drive policy change. Leap, as an organization is growing across Europe and this event will be the first in a series of activities which we plan to showcase. Our advocacy and will work the movement within police and with the law enforcement here on this panel today we have years looking at the devastating consequences of this war on drugs with no reduction in supply and demand, countless needless deaths, which I think should be enough evidence to show that it is not working. But the voices of those whose job it is to serve and protect should be listened to. So with that, I’ll introduce our first speaker, Diane Goldstein, who is the executive Director of Law Enforcement Action Partnership from the USA.

Diane Goldstein:

Good morning everyone from Las Vegas, NV. Suzanne noted, my name is Dan Goldstein, and I’m currently the executive Director of Law Enforcement Action Partnership. But I started my policing career in Redondo Beach, CA during the 1980s, nineteen Limited 90s and early 2000s. What brought me to advocacy was the death of my brother, who suffered from both mental health issues and was diagnosed and was criminalised for what should have been a public health issue. But since my career and specifically in the last 10 years, I’ve seen some tremendous changes. In this growing international movement of law enforcement to affect change, but I want to talk about the US in particular and how our view of drug use as a moral failing has long pervaded and steered. Our criminal justice system and the global. Drunk driving forcement policy programs that we see across the world and this has ensured harsh punishments for individuals and communities. The emphasis on using the criminal justice system to treat a public health issue divert critical funding needed for evidence based substance use disorder interventions that are both more efficacious. Add more officially, an intended it determines drug use, through severe punishment has not resulted in a drug free society, but his resulted in damage new in public health and the continuation continuation of policing strategies so that structural racism. In America it has undermined all American Civil Liberties as well as human rights across the world, and together the very legitimacy of law enforcement and criminal justice system itself and our relationship with communities that were meant to serve and return these pulses be virtually methy prevent drugs from entering the US, nor to mitigate problematic drug use and related harms. Rather, they produce arms as organizations like Leap have Long stated, our drug policy contributes to racism, violence, human rights, and substance use disorders, The US public increasingly knows this. Even years ago, boys that Gracian Rasmussen showed declining public support card drug policies forbidding widespread belief that the drug wars a failure. Yet majority opinion holds, depressingly, will sway justice professionals prevailing belief. That drug use is a morally flawed choice. At the same time for all the obstacles and reactionary elements that remain, there has been a tremendous shift among many criminal justice professionals in the last decade and recognize. Has not solved the world’s drug related problems. Other people, many examples of reform or a complete an imperfect but still do present progress. Make it clear. Long Forsman professionals here and abroad Nappy can calling for safe consumption sites for strange exchange programs for new rocks and distribution to both public and. Police for access to methadone and Suboxone for pre booking diversion programs like System version for drug treatment on Demand, Good Samaritan laws, drug checking services for a safe drug supply and for the decriminalization of all drugs just ten years ago. This would have unthinkable juice. And welding supply, most colleagues in the drug policy reform movement share my frustration that the pace of change isn’t faster and many see the pursuit of a more radical society performs as a better avenues in reforming criminal justice from within. These change crucial differences peoples lives, they will make more at the momentum continues in Our international movement grows, law enforcement is increasing on the painted. Recent examples globally include the Canadian Police Chiefs calling for decriminalization and safe supply as well as this is in the United Kingdom implementing care. One assisted treatment in their communities. So we ask you to join us today. I’m calling on the UN to indent failure of our drug policies.

Henri Korye – Coppenhagen police:

Thanks Diane, without further adieu. I’ll introduce to our next speaker who is Henrik, who’s based in Copenhagen in Denmark. Thank you, Suzanne. I’m good afternoon to all of you from Copenhagen, Denmark. My name is like I’ve been working in the Copenhagen police for more than 30 years. I’m a Superintendent. Former prosecutor and then working in different kinds of police, including work at the narcotic Department I’ve been watching from the sideline and my hands on it also occasionally for more than 10 years. That development in in the drug seen in the central part of coppenhaguen. And so 10 years ago we didn’t have any drug consumption rooms. But thanks to other civil society organizations it was employed and today organizations. It was employed and today we have consumption rooms. Some of them are very close to the police station and. It works very well. So I think from my perspective and I’m sure for a lot of others too, including police officers. We couldn’t imagine to go back to the way it was before 10 years ago. Best along way to go, but we’re heading in the right direction. And of course we have anyone else also need support. Thank you.

 

Hubert – LEAP Deutschland:

All good morning or good evening. Wherever you joined us. Thank you for the kind words of introduction. I wanto to share to police officers my expertise in dealing with illegalized substances and the criminal prosecution That has existed for over 60 years. For almost all activities related to them is based on this special professional experience. In the field of narcotic crime, there are currently around 350,000 police investigations and around 69,000 conviction convictions by the German criminal justice system every year. What is remarkable about these figures is that in Germany, and I believe in other countries, to around 80% of these investigations and conviction concern drug users for acquiring and possessing these substances and only 20% relate to the supply side of the drug market for manufactured trafficking and illegal importation. Approximately 6% of all criminal offenses recorded by the police in Germany are based on criminal law for the critics. We consider that the Global War on Drugs has failed. This has been widely documented and demonstrated so today it is important to repair the damage caused by prohibitionist policies. This is a perspective that half that year after year, more experts officials and civil society organizations around the world adopt and share in the drug policy debate based on facts and science. A prohibitive drug policy knows no protection of minors and consumers, leads to exorbitant profits for criminal organizations that dominate the market for illegalize drugs, especially in source and transit countries and places great on law enforcement, the panel system and the rule of law. And that’s important. Now where in the world are security agencies in control of the drug market? In 40% of all organized crime proceedings in Europe, drug trafficking was the main business area, says the recent report from a report. what sense does it make that people who use illicit narcoticsthe cultivation of these plans, is threatened with high penalties, while, for example, the best is awarded the Federal Cross of Merit in the best case and other drugs are considered a crime. It doesn’t make any sense at all. leave Being the professional expertise. Of employees from the field of law enforcement and criminal justice to the debate on a change in drug policy in Germany. In doing so. We strike to network with other national chapters of Leap and other nongovernmental organizations, and to strengthen international cooperation in law enforcement. Work aware of the consequences of end harm of the war on drugs. We demand that public servants reform the current drug policies issue a human policy free of ideology and stigma with our team and our members. We want to achieve this goal by influencing the decision-making process of political parties, by participating in specialized conferences like this, and by giving awareness raising talks in organizations and associations and through active public and political advocacy work. During the general elections in this ultimately will inquire about the position of all parties with parliamentary representation, except of the right wing populist and partly leftist party. Since cannabis is by far the most widely illegal drug. We call for the decriminalization of cannabis users and the creation of a state controlled-cannabis market as already exists in some countries. As a first step. In addition, we consider it sensible to establish such such regulations for other substances that are subject to the criminal law of narcotic drugs, such as the expansion of diamorphine, substitution for opiate addicts. The Federal Republic of Germany must be aware that as a rich country with a high demand for drugs, it is partly responsible for the development of organized crime and the continuing increase of human rights violations, especially in the countries of origin and transit. There are a lot of inconsistencies between what the federal government claims at the international level. Only together as a civil society and law enforces can we repair the damage of this nefarious policy has done to the most vulnerable communities and to achieve this goal we will continue to work. Thank you very much for your extension. Stay safe and optimistic. Thank you.

Neil Woods – LEAP UK:

Just before to say what I was intending said, I want to highlight something that that Henrik said I I was. I was fortunate enough to visit Copenhagen because I was very pleased to be able to see the drug consumption rooms there, because obviously we spend a lot of time advocating for them in different countries, not least of which the UK. And I was invited when I was there to attend a retirement party of the local police officer whose responsibility was the area were the main consumption rooms. And in the United Kingdom and wherever I’ve been to a police officer’s retirement party, I was expecting to go to a bar and drink beer, but I was taken to actually the social room withing the consumption room, where this this police officer decided to spend his retirement celebration with the street people, the vulnerable people who were using the consumption room.  It was something wonderful because all of the homeless people, the people who are really struggling with life, were all queuing up. They were lining up to get this police officer a hug. That kind of relationship in the community is only possible when you start to take away from punitive drug laws, clearly because people who are struggling with mental social problems are not the enemy of police.

But anyway I just wanted to add that because because is such an important place for us in terms of how community police relationships developed. We are at leap a growing international communit calling for evidence based drug policy. Ae have come along . the issue of drug policy reform, now is political mainstream. Really radical, what would have been considered radical drug law reforms are being discussed right now, whether is descriminalization or regulation of cannabis markets. I speak to a lot of audiences and a very common question from people, They say to me, well, you’ve explained the evidence for this, and it’s not quite clear the evidence, so why is the government not adopting it, much quicker, why is change happening so slowly. And there’s a very important reason for that. That is that in every nation, to varying degrees, the police control the narrative on drug policy. They do. Now, it’s not the fault of the police, who is being tasked with a punitive drug policy, and police will always seek to gain public approval to gain public confidence in what they do. It’s part of the process of creating confidence. Unfortunately, what this means is that the police are controlling narrative and slowing down the growth of social movement for change because drug policy is about social justice. Social justice issues rarely change. They change with the growth of social movement, and social movement grows if  the messaging from the police was different. Let me explain what I mean. If International drug prohibition was a business, as a business, it would have the most powerful marketing strategy in the history of business, because whatever country you’re from, wherever you’re listening to this from you will have seen three key marketing images that the police repeatedly put out into the major social media, they announce journalists and press releases. The first is the image of police officers smashing in somebody’s very early at the morning. The scond image repairs the growth of mugshots either on the front of a newspaper or on the news head over and its rows of people who are ushered in a successful operation, and the third, perhaps the most powerful, important image, is the image of big drug seizure,         size blocks of cocaine that have been seized at the border or in a cargo ship or by the by the navy. How many times have we heard the term “This is a records seizure, the highest seizures ever”. But these images reach to the public saying that the current system was working, because the police so often used language evidencing success. And that’s why we as an org aere important, and which is why we are moving to more regional stands into the European chapter. We are able to challenge that narrative, because we know that those images are a deception, because these police operations do not reduce crime, they increase crime. If any nation state decided to invest more money in policing drugs, more drug dealers will be caught, but that will only increase the violence. All that does is increase the violence. Where a gap is created in the market, there is always someone extremely happy to be given the opportunity to take up that gap. I myself, whilst working undercover on multiple occasions have brought down entire gangs and drug dealers in a city only to interrupt the drug supply for a matter of two or three hours. The people who take up that opportunity use violence to secure their new position. So the activity of policing is increasing violent crime. It’s increasing corruption through the monopolization that policing creates. Time for all police to be honest. Because where the police present to the public that what they are doing is reducing crime. This is not true, and if nothing else does police officers, we have a duty to the truth. No, this event in Vienna. Normally we do this and we do have good audiences when we do these events, but this is an opportunity this year because there are members of the public listing who would not normally have the opportunity to attend one of these briefings. And so I’m addressing. All the people who are listening. We can help the social movement grow. But we need everyone else’s help. For us to grow first, so. Today we are announcing the next 18 months or so a series of events across Europe. They’re launch events for the new shape of our organization’s League Europe. We already have our allies and logistics in place to have events in Paris. With the cooperation of our wonderful chapter leap fronts, we have event an event planned in Amsterdam, one in Copenhagen, one in Barcelona and another in London. We ought we are also ambitious to have plans in such places, like Finland, so we could support the decriminalization debate there. And we also have an event planned in Barcelona. But I’m addressing all of the audience here. If you are a politician or if you work with politicians. Invite us to come and speak. To your allies or to your opponents, or to your voters. If I if there are any journalists listening. Interview us. Get us to publicly challenge the narrative of your place because wherever we do, interviews in whichever country which have a newspaper, we always sell copies and we always generate clicks. So, or if you are civil society involved in harm reduction. And the police interfere with your activities. Maybe we can help with that. But wherever we can help, civil society and wherever you are. We are here to help that grow social movement grow quicker quickly. So we are. A growing international organization of police and other law enforcement calling for an evidence-based drug policy. But we could do much more, much quick, more quickly if we work closely with allies. So if anyone wants to get in touch, please soon. We will have a central hub for leap Europe as a website, but in the meantime we have the websites for Leap UK Leap in the USA, Scandinavia, Germany. please find a way of getting in touch with us and let’s let’s see how we can help this this movement grow so thank you.

Suzanne Sharkey – LEAP UK:

Thank you and for what everybody said and you know it’s it’s. I think it’s important to reiterate that. As a ex police officer and all of us on this panel is that we are we’re here to help and support and promote drug policy reform. You know, police do the best they can with what they have. But it’s time now to change its time that. You know, Lauren Forcement. In our communities do speak out that it’s not working. It’s not working, it never will and we will never stop the supply and demand of drugs. And to make it a safer environment for people that use drugs and people that use problematically, they get the help and treatment that they need. And like someone said in the chat, you know. Kindness is the way forward. You know we’re coming out of extraordinary times under covid and we’re going to be entering into a huge negative mental health issue. And with that in my areas and in recovery, there will be repetitions and. We need to help our most vulnerable. You know society to thanks for what everybody has said and like Neil said is there is going to be more events coming up in the next next year which will put out on social media. You can find us on Facebook and Googles and allow Enforcement action partnership and do reach out to us and we’re happy to help and support. so with that we’ve actually got one question in the Q&A which i believe neil and so Philip Anthony will come out have any effect on the outcomes.

Neil Woods – LEAP UK:

Yeah, I think I think the question refers to a system in the UK called Concard. No, like many nations, including including Germany, that there is a very frustratingly slow rollout structural rollout of the use of medical cannabis. Now this is very frustrating for people who have health conditions which rely on medical cannabis, which are still forced to use illicit markets, and certainly in the UK there is no excuse at all for the slow political support of cannabis for medical purposes and. We have a situation in the UK where. Only rich people can afford it. It’s it’s not yet available on the National Health Service, so. Interestingly, and encouragingly the police across the UK are are in sports of assistant called Cam Card, which means that if a police officer find someone in possession with what they believe to be kind of it’s can card allows a way of identifying somebody who has start. For a trip, a medical reason and that person is in receipt of a prescription for that cannabis which helps the police officer not criminalize that person. But well, I welcome any kind of move that is supported by police, which is in a progressive direction I. I see control is very frustrating thing because it it doesn’t go far enough. It shows up the problems with the political response to medical cannabis rather than anything else, and I would strictly encourage. Any police force in the UK under round the world not to wait for political institutions to instigate. True policy reform, because certainly at least some place in the UK already use diversion schemes. To avoid people being criminalised for possession of drugs. And those diversion schemes come from a principle of discretion. Police can use discretion. To not criminalize people. And I think police have a responsibility for that now. A police officer in Australia may well argue with me and say say that they don’t have that freedom. They don’t have that freedom to do that because it’s not in their Constitution, but certainly in the UK it is easier to use discretion and to formulate diversion schemes. But what I would say is if you are a police officer in new start, listen excuse, you’re not trying hard enough to change your system. You’re not because you should not be causing harm needlessly to people who use drugs, so I would challenge any police officer who says that, and you know we’re an international organization. A policeman, so we are in a position we we can challenge police when they say things like that. So I hope I hope that answers a question about concrete.

Suzzane Sharkey – LEAP UK:

We have another question, can you talk about any research that you are aware of that demonstrate that violence increases as a result of drug law enforcement

Diane Goldstein:

So I think policy I’m sorry now you know for from the United States they have and I don’t have it off the top of my head but there’s been significant research that refflex both violence Increase the more we interdict. Supply site, but I’ll go and go back to a 1996 RAM study that was actually done to determine whether introduction or intervention regarding drug treatment was more efficient and effective. In 1996 they branded a study using pain and marijuana and what they found in particular was for every dollar spent on drug treatment, it returns seven times the value of that dollar back to the US tax pay. But money spent on supply side efforts really in in many aspects had a short term impact on reducing supply, but immediately is the markets that would always open up. I ran a narcotics unit for two years and what I saw is that we took someone out who was committing robberies or burglaries, the neighborhood stayed safe for a longer Period of time. When we took of a drug dealer on it by doing a hand to hand operation or a long term operation. It just opened up the market a brought more dealers to open up.

Suzzane Sharkey – LEAP UK:

Neil, would you like to add anything to that?

Neil Woods – LEAP UK:

There is evidence. Like Diane says, there is clear evidence that policing drugs does increase violence in many Earths, particularly in situations. But all of our members around the world we are all aware of our own police intelligence databases which have repeatedly told that to ourselves. Which isn’t available to the public, which is another reason why we, as police have a duty to be honest about what we know and understand.

Suzanne Sharkey – LEAP UK:

Thank you actually this kind of questions that have come from the Facebook: how does leap respond to growing discourse to abolish or defund the police? Are the police mostly victims of policies and legislation which drives such discourses?

Diane Goldstein:

So one I’ll take a crack at it starting at the US so. Leap as an organization has been talking about in many aspects of defunding the drug war. For years we started out as a a single focus organization based on simply abolishing drug prohibition. And part of the issue has been, and I can only speak to the United States, is what we know is that law enforcement has taken up significantly more budgets for years, going back decades that have been diverted from critical community infrastructure programs that includes. Healthcare behavioral healthcare job training education you can tie increase budgets into mass incarceration and policing having a direct impact on reducing budgets that we should be investing in. At the front end, in our communities. And so you know, the defending the police issue. I think the protests in the United States have been critically important. Enforcing law enforcement to look at what the true purpose of law enforcement is, and recognizing that we serve our constituents and that we have to be partners and ensuring that there’s. A variety of infrastructure. That makes the knee of a community.

Suzanne Sharkey – LEAP UK:

Other questions. The first one that’s come up of.  4. So in the UK, which I think transfers across Europe, and USA, you know often at the police when they are charging and taking a case to court, it’s always used in in the public interest and can we challenge the idea that anyone wants Individual users arrested and charged anymore?, so I suppose from a grassroots, advocacy of challenging that that this is no longer in the public interest by police and what what choice do the police have to do that.

Neil Woods – LEAP UK:

Let’s hope it’s got something something to out there. Essentially, public public interest decisions in terms of whether to prosecute or not are not generally down to the police that down to the prosecutor or insert in the UK, the Crown Prosecution Service and ultimately by by a court, but whether there is something is in the public interest or not. Public interest is is a legal term rather than an actual term relating to the interest of an individual or community, but of course. It is up to us as as activists to argue that it is in the public interest to look out for the welfare of individuals for a public health point of view. So it’s public interest argument is it is an evolving thing. I’m not sure about. I got show rented that very well, but the term public interest is a legal term. That’s the problem with answering.

Suzanne Sharkey – LEAP UK:

Damn it, I thought I’d get away with not doing that. This long with the readout in the Q&A after this one. This is this is, I think is is an issue that. We have of police officers speaking out whilst they are in certain positions against. And carrying out law enforcement with with drug policies in place. So it was it. I’ll ask people’s opinions. Maybe Henrik and Hubert may have an opinion on this. Of what positions concurrently serving police officers take in terms of policing drugs. So you know when we talk about. Challenging the policies in place that we have to enforce. You know very much for when I was insert an officer I had to do what my superior officer said and for me there wasn’t a choice. If I came across someone with drugs, arrest was. The way forward I’d like to think that’s changed a lot, but if you’d like to give you an experience on that. What you feel from the ground in your country?

Hubert:

OK, I think the police lives very much on empirical knowledge that occurs. In every day’s life, on the street and. The change touches the ethics of many police officers and they have a long, long years of experience and in fighting crime on the street and in the drug areas, we must, I think it takes a lot of effort to change that. It takes courage to speak out in favor of a different drug policy. And then we have to empower them and we have to organize, for example, roundtables in the communities with the community with the police authority and with the organizations of drug help on a simple level. As this was our way when we found exception for the consumption rooms in Germany and we have to do it step by step, it is not so easy. The unions who are gonna list police and members agreeing with this prohibitionist drug policy and we have to produce discoveries it and we have every day to say we have every day to say that you do not reach your goals of the prohibition of drugs, but, But it’s my experience. It’s a long and hard way to discuss this.

Suzzane Sharkey – LEAP UK:

Thank you. Death records on substance disorders have been addressed with increasing policing as an answer. And if these organizations emphasize sufficiently resourced, it’s not clear they would be able to bring about a sustained reduction in drug supply is what stated. Do you have any suggestions how to counter these ideas? It seems government officials have not even read their own papers on the subject.

Neil Woods – LEAP UK:

Yeah, I mean often the response from politicians who are in power in particular, they are mainly formulating policies, that merely support the current policy regime. And that’s because politicians in power or essentially following where they believe the voting public is, is in support of. The answer really is to involve activists such as such as Leap and other organisations.. This is about the social movement. As we’ve said already, we have to make the social movement grow to make our engagement with politicians more successful. But having said that. If he organization in the UK called anyone’s child and they advocate regular contact with politicians have said to them that if they received 3 types of contacts from the public, the politician will then sit up and take notice and they will believe that the public has started to change their opinion so it actually takes very little repetitive contact with politicians to influence what they decide to engage with. So I suppose the messages we all will have to try it. But where we can help we will help. And where other civil society groups can help, like anyone’s child, they will help as well. And certainly in the UK on the only ones child website there is a pro formal letter that you can use as a standard letter to send to your Member of Parliament or other politicians. So one thing that we can all do is to repeatedly contact our politicians and we will eventually receive responses.

Suzanne Sharkey – LEAP UK:

Thanks Neil and so just coming to the end of of this session and thank you for what everybody said and I think it’s important to reiterate that you know we are an international growing organization. But you know, we were not here today. We have all the answers, and we’re not here to do that alone. You know, that’s that’s the beauty of it. That there are a lot of NGOs out there. Still a society that complementing what we’re saying from both sides of the argument, you know those like themselves have been criminalised by their product substance use and those that. I on the streets still enforcing these. Outdated laws to finish. Spring this on on on the parents really. If you just like to. Put forward a couple of sentence is or finishing statement or if not that’s fine not to put you on the spot just to close this session and thanks everybody for taking part. All those on Facebook as well as those are attended in person. And like we said, please do reach out to us. And be great to to hear from you. So I will go to Diane first if you can have a closing statement

Diane Goldstein:

I just like to thank everyone. One of the huge paradigm shifts for law enforcement is going to be in the future is to make and change public safety from law enforcement. Being responsible solely to it to community health and safety were inclusive. Everyone from the homeless person to someone suffering from substance use disorder to drug users to law enforrcement. If we all work together, we can change our communities for the better.

Henri Korye – Coppenhagen police:

Yeah, I just would like to point out that continue from where you put the deal to go. I’m sure every police officer all over the world when they start joining the police forces, It’s because they want to help the community help the people make a better world. And my statement would be just continuing to that you’re doing very well, but along that path you can wiser. You learned a lot. Use it. What you learn, what you know after 10 years service, 20 years, whatever is much more than the day you started. Use that knowledge to continue your good work.

Hubert:

I want to thank you, thank you Suzanne and Neil for organizing this panel. I think it is very important we are on the right way and we are in progress that is, that is important to say and we have to share our experience. What we make in the national contest on and. International level, and that’s that. What we have to do in the near future. Thank you very much.

Neil Woods – LEAP UK:

Yeah, just I’ll just reiterate that you know that the pandemic has slowed us down with our plans, public events, but we are ready to go as soon as things out. So please anyone who can support us, help us with logistics, funding or anything at all. Please get in touch. We can achieve more with more help. So thank you very much for listening today.

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